Author Topic: backups  (Read 8896 times)

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  • The Fisherman
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« on: February 28, 2009, 03:09:20 PM »

There is a glitch in CSB 4 and CSB 5 that makes you have to uncheck the Save copy of exported HTML locally item in Publishing options.  Leaving it checked CAN cause CSB to delete KNOWN items from the server, by accident.  The good thing is that if you uncheck it and republish, it all comes back. But this is not YOUR issue.




Which would be the safest way to have a local copy... obviously managing with CSB.   ???
Anyone who has never owned a dog can't know what loving and being loved mean- ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER 

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  • Sami
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2009, 05:19:09 PM »
Depends on what you want.

I use preview function:  (and check the box for local html)
1) To publish an internal website that several people in our office can see and use.  That file is NEVER published to the web.  Used to provide info to the company only.  Appropriate people have link to "home" page on our server.

2) Converting a FRAMED site to NON-Framed.  I first PREVIEW it on my own machine in FRAMED mode. Then non-framed, adjust as necessary.  Then preview one last time in FRAMED mode.  Finally I uncheck and publish to the web.  I use FTP to upload my old xxx_m.htm files.  That way if any links came in to those pages, they automatically bounce to the full master pages!  (All xxx_m files have redirect to the master page!)  Those xxx_m.htm files will be removed later but for a while, they may help bolster ratings.

3) If I have a BIG change to a page, I use the preview function to check it then publish.

4) I do not preview every time I update a website.


As to making BACKUP copies.  That is a different matter.
I have many copies of items that have been on and off my website.
But monthly I make a BACKUP of every file on my website by going into my control panel at my host.
I choose to backup the main directory....and I can download a compressed file of all those files in one piece.
I choose to backup the forum directory and the databases for this forum too in compressed files.
I delete the old one and keep only the current one each time.
Once every six months I download (using FTP) all the contents of the website and burn it to a DVD.
Takes a long time, but it gives me a great starting point if I had to rebuild at some point.
I have a backup drive too....I had to replace 2 already that failed..... so I ALSO have a few CD's of my tlx design files going back many years...cheaper than USB thumbdrives for me.  (I have a USB drive that allows me to transfer some of the TLX files from office to home quickly and never lose a beat.  Since both use the same settings the file does not know where it was published last)
Do I need all those backups? No.  But they HAVE come in handy.
For our office, I was able to prove when I added something to our site...
Had years of tlx files to research backwards and it was GREAT resource!

The point is it does not matter HOW you backup. Just that you do.
Both the CONTENT of your website, and the tlx file that builds it.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 08:06:52 PM by Samrc »
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2009, 07:33:05 AM »
Did I answer your question....did I give you the information you needed?
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2009, 08:43:50 AM »
Well, I would say... yes, thank you. After reading your exhaustive post about how you work with your files and how you backup them, I can say that most of us do +/- the same things, but... my question was only about CSB.  :yes:

Save a copy of exported HTML locally option  -> check or not? - only in Preview? never on Publish?

Save a copy of tlx file on the server option -> do it any time you make a change? - FTPd or let CSB do it? - the .cab file on the server would be enough to rebuild the site in case of major crash?

Is it enough to backup (outside PC, pen, CD, etc.) the last .tlx file and the locally saved version, which has been manually renamed (name + data of changes) any time it changes?




Admin note: removed text re image problem....moved to other thread
« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 10:10:18 AM by Samrc »
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2009, 10:27:59 AM »
I split these posts off to be a new thread specifically about BACKUPS.

Save a copy of exported HTML locally option  -> check or not? -
only in Preview?  check the box!
never on Publish?  Do not check the box!
EVERYONE using CSB 4 or 5 should use that guideline if they have a specific HTML folder (instead of temp int files).
Anyone using CSB 3 can leave it checked at all times.

Save a copy of tlx file on the server option -> do it any time you make a change?
I do not use this option
  :-[
I do not store the CAB file (made by CSB 4 & 5 backup option) or TLX design files on my web host.
When you choose for CSB to backup, it extends the publishing in time to upload the cab file.
I choose not to do this and instead use the other methods I mentioned.

But I do have some recommendations:
If you can not burn cd/dvd/usb stick, etc, then at MINIMUM you should save a backup copy of your design file to your host.  This will take extra space so not everyone can do it.  But it is a great feature for people that can not backup any other way.
- If you let CSB do it for you: the file that is uploaded is a CAB, compressed file.  Takes up less space but it does take more time during the publishing process.
- If you FTP your design file to the host:  You can control when you do it easier.  Takes up more space.

the .cab or .tlx design file on the server would be enough to rebuild the site in case of major crash?
NO.
The cab is a compressed copy of a tlx design file.   It can only contain the web pages and images specifically uploaded by CSB.  This covers MOST things but not everything.  I know one CSB user that uploads 200+ images to his website WEEKLY, constantly replacing existing images.  Does it ALL OUTSIDE OF CSB.  Uses a piece of code to pull the images into CSB rather than putting them directly into his CSB web page.  So NONE of his images would be in his .tlx or cab file. If you have uploaded ANYTHING manually, it will not be included in the CSB file.  It also does not have any of your server settings (for email, folder protection, etc).
 
Is it enough to backup (outside PC, pen, CD, etc.) the last .tlx file and the locally saved version, which has been manually renamed (name + data of changes) any time it changes?
NO.
You technically need two kinds of backups.  Many know of only one.  Let me explain.
1) Backup your design work.   Backup the tlx/cab somewhere on host, cd, dvd, removeable drive, something.  Yes everyone knows about this type of backup.  You can personally choose to save only ONE or several copies (different dates) for those files.  Your choice.  When I burn a cd of tlx files, I burn several copies for several websites.   AT MINIMUM you should have a backup made within the last month, or after every MAJOR change to the website.   Key here: how far back do you want to go if you have to rebuild?  Personal choice based on your sense of safety, how often you update, what type of updates you do...etc.

2) Backup your WEBSITE.  What?  ???   Ok.... So you have a backup of your design file at the host.  And your computer is running great.  Should be enough. 

If you ONLY use CSB to build a website, make no extra uploads with FTP or site manager at host, or make changes to htaccess or any other system file then backing up your tlx file to a cd/dvd/stick, etc is enough because you can republish and go forward.  But if you do more than that, you need to do more to protect yourself.

SO... What happens if the HOST loses your data?  They are running a COMPUTER just like yours.  They can have a hard drive fail.  They sometimes have to replace equipment. OR if your site is HACKED and someone changes the content of your website or removes things from the site. If it is hacked, you could have a virus/trojan or other nasty put on your website (without your knowledge) and your host could dump your site data to protect the server or other accounts on the server.  If someone else on the server is hacked and infects the server, your website data can get damaged/corrupted. If you have images, music, downloadable files, anything uploaded outside of CSB, you could LOSE IT.  And all hosts consider it YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to make a backup of the website.  Remember you are not the only one storing information on that computer! You are on SHARED HOSTING....shared computer.

Some hosts offer good backup options, but take it from someone with experience on this issue...sometimes the backups they have are INCOMPLETE, or older than you expect! Or the host will not allow use of it because it had been hacked and a separate copy is required. So having your own copy of what is at their server is a GREAT thing!   Can do it in a compressed version, or not.  I do both.  Overkill I know).  But truthfully, if I had to rebuild Samisite.com or my employer's site from scratch, I would just close both down!  TOOOOO MUCH done outside of CSB that saving just the tlx files is only part of my world. 

One reason I like to host with TotalChoiceHosting is they offer cPanel which makes backup and restore EASY... No tech support assistance required when you use the PARTIAL options.  Also it allows me to backup the forum more often than samisite.com





Admin note: removed text re image problem....moved to other thread
« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 10:09:39 AM by Samrc »
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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Re: backups
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2009, 03:53:59 PM »
Thank you Sami.

We get closer to CSB with this answer.

In other words,

- Backup on EXTERNAL MEDIA the design file AND .tlx file as often as how far back do you want to go if you have to rebuild.

- Same for images, music, etc. that you FTP separately to the server, which means NOT using CSB
This is most important in case of damage on server's computer, otherwise it is always possible to download those images, music, etc.

- Having copies on the server doesn't make sense if you modify/update very often (toooo long every backup).

I made a small .bat routine to make backup to D:\ and to a Pen Drive with one click.
Images are copied also on a CD  ;)




Admin note: removed text re image problem....moved to other thread
« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 10:09:07 AM by Samrc »
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Re: backups
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2009, 05:34:26 PM »
Quote
In other words,

- Backup on EXTERNAL MEDIA the design file AND .tlx file as often as how far back do you want to go if you have to rebuild.
Design file is the tlx file. 

Quote
- Having copies on the server doesn't make sense if you modify/update very often (toooo long every backup).
This is personal decision. In MY CASE, you are correct. But... Some people build their sites using many subdirectories with tiny tlx design files.  In that case a CSB uploaded cab file would not much time to publishing process, or take much space on the server so it is a benefit. Others with large tlx files would add far too much time to publishing process to do it EACH update and may chose to send a cab file to website once a month, or not at all.   

Quote
- Same for images, music, etc. that you FTP separately to the server, which means NOT using CSB
This is most important in case of damage on server's computer, otherwise it is always possible to download those images, music, etc. 
You should back up BOTH directions....
1) Back up your stuff:  tlx design file (or use a cab file) and all externally loaded images, files, etc.
2) Back up their stuff:  folders on the server.  They contain not just your website files and images.
Your server has far more on it than that:  settings for the email, directory settings, forms, scripts, settings for any databases, LOTS of things that are outside CSB besides the images you FTP to the site.  If your site is hacked, infected, damaged, corrupted, lost from the server, could you put it all back??? 
Many people don't worry about this part and only are concerned with #1, their stuff.  Personal choice to take that risk.  I prefer having a copy of the server info.

Quote
I made a small .bat routine to make backup to D:\ and to a Pen Drive with one click.
Images are copied also on a CD 
Great.  (email me a copy of your bat file please...would like to see it) 

By the way, there is also a simple program made by a former CSB user that can be used with CSB or any program.  KW has a description and link to the program:  BLAUNCH does great backups as you open a file. Read more here.    When you go to the Blaunch website, h**p://www.blaunch.us.tt/ a small popup will open do not click the RED X...Click the tiny GRAY X above the Red X to close it.


One last comment about backups. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT BEFORE MAKING ANY MAJOR CHANGE TO A WEBSITE,  full backup of what is on the web host should be made!  If the change breaks something, overwrites something that you needed, etc, it is easy to put it back.



Admin note: removed text re image problem....moved to other thread
« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 10:07:55 AM by Samrc »
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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Re: backups
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2009, 10:03:57 AM »
Admin note: Pruned from Tony41 post on another thread....was referring to this thread
NOTE THAT ALL DISCUSSION OF THE PHOTO ISSUE IS IN THIS SEPARATE THREAD NOW.




Design file is the tlx file. 

Sorry, I intended to say the folder with pages & CBS images and the .tlx file

Quote
(email me a copy of your bat file please...would like to see it) 
Is not a big deal, just a simple .bat edited in DOS, you know: copy c:\iars... bla bla bla
Some weeks ago I went to see KW's backup program... too complicated for my 8080 processor the 16 Kb of CORE BRAIN memory,


-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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Re: backups
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 10:06:25 AM »
Quote
Is not a big deal, just a simple .bat edited in DOS, you know: copy c:\iars... bla bla bla
Would still like to see it if you would be willing to share it. 
(Haven't written a bat file since 1987!  :-[)
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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Re: backups
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2009, 02:52:36 PM »
Sami, did you see SkyDrive of Windows? 25 Gb of free space...
could it be another place to backup?  :D

Just click and drag any file...  :ss-shocked:
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Re: backups
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2009, 05:39:12 AM »
Quote
Is not a big deal, just a simple .bat edited in DOS, you know: copy c:\iars... bla bla bla
Would still like to see it if you would be willing to share it. 
(Haven't written a bat file since 1987!  :-[)



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Re: backups
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2009, 04:00:05 PM »
Yes, I have seen that.  Have seen other free and paid storage solutions for off-site storage.

This is totally a personal decision.  What suits each of us best.


I choose to not use them. 
And do not recommend them, long term. 
1) Transfer rates.  Time is a mean task master.  To backup my main hard drive onto an off-site server would be HOURS!!!  :yuck:  And if I just wanted to do tlx files, images, etc, again, hours!
2) Privacy. Backing up your website files, images, etc is not a big deal.  But many people start with that and then start to copy the IMPORTANT data from their drive that can have sensitive information.  Do you really want YOUR files on someone else's server where other people have the opportunity to copy, steal, delete information?
3) MANY of the services that offer storage Crash and Burn, even from big companies that are relatively stable!  Recently a really popular photo storage site gave users 12 hours to get files off the server before it was dismantled.
- HP Upline


I prefer to use a backup drive and bring it to work.  Safe secure off site and under my own control.



« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 04:20:57 PM by Samrc »
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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Re: backups
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2009, 03:12:09 AM »
Yea... I agree 100% with you  :yes:

T
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Re: backups
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2009, 08:46:12 AM »
(write it down...might be the only time!   rofl;) :D :flowers:
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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Re: backups
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2009, 09:54:13 AM »
 :-[
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Re: backups
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2009, 01:07:39 PM »
 ;) :D :hearts:
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )