Author Topic: Coffeecup  (Read 15138 times)

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Coffeecup
« on: July 08, 2007, 12:10:09 PM »
Last night I downloaded the 30-day free trial of Coffeecup's "not-free" HTML editor. Their venerable free HTML editor that only edits HTML is still available, but the purchased version can be switched back and forth between code view and WYSIWYG view. The code view is the default, but that can be changed in your settings so that files open in WYSIWYG view.

I haven't had much chance to play around with it, but so far it looks promising. I may have to buy the program to really see what it can do, as I don't seem to be able to download a working help file with the trial version, which greatly limits my "putzing" ability. There are a lot of things that can be used that I've never tried since they're not in CSB -- CSS, drop-down menus, various ways to use flash, for example. 

They also have a program called a Visual Editor, which seems to be only WYSIWYG. I haven't downloaded that one; since the price is the same for each (just under $50 for either editor), it doesn't seem very "cost-effective" to buy one that only has half of the use. But I'll read what's said about it to see if maybe there are some things that are more user-friendly than they are in the version that includes the HTML editor.

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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2007, 09:31:36 AM »
Thanks - I think when I have some time to really learn the HTML editor (which isn't right now!) it could be a very flexible program.

The Visual Editor seems to be a lot  more limited, almost like what you'd be able to do with an online Trellix program.

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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2007, 11:48:48 AM »
Excellent comments.  NICE TO KNOW.  Thanks Trudy for the review.

Will add the program to the checklist I am building. It will not rate well.
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2007, 09:18:01 AM »
As far as Coffeecup, I'd say:

Visual Editor - No
HTML Editor - Maybe

The HTML Editor does have something of a learning curve and I just don't have time to play with it now (re-organizing at work, re-organizing and having company at home, adding a forum to my site because the one I've been posting on for the last 5 years has just announced that its closing at the end of the month). But I think it's a real possibility.

I just have one question - Why, oh, why, can't someone provide a site map?!! :-\


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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2007, 11:10:13 AM »
HI, I know what you mean Trudy - it is continually the problem for me with the software I have tested as well. For example when I finally made a site with Spinner I realized that my almost two hundred pages that I need to convert to another program soon would by necessity need to be built in folders. For some areas that is OK but for others that contain a long list of quite similar pages it is an added time consuming inconvenience that multiplies into the future every time I would want to change some basic element. It is so much easier and faster to have more pages in one file than multiple files. This one lacking feature puts almost all of the softwares in the "better off limited to small sites" category on my grading sheet. I think WYSIWYG is the only program I am considering for the remake at this time that has a site map. Cute sure did spoil us huh?  :'(
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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2007, 04:40:20 PM »
But Wanda.... CSB has a site map only for the particular tlx file you are working in. 
If you build your site using subdirectories, you still end up with more than one design file and your site map is split between different tlx files....
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2007, 01:49:50 AM »
yep all of my pages are currently in one file (except for hidden and password areas not included in this overall count) and because I publish very quickly even with that many pages, I would prefer to have a site map and all pages on one file with no sub directories. So that one change to the master items would be made throughout the entire site. With somewhere near 200 pages it only takes me a minute to publish updates and even a ton of changes takes no more than maybe three or four minutes so the convenience of making one change that reflects on all pages would be worth the extra little time to publish and I can do something else while it publishes anyway. I really would like a site map!!  :yes::hearts: site maps! lol
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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2007, 10:35:32 AM »
I use subdirectories - a lot of them! But I still love the site maps. I'm working on one subdirectory at a time, after all. The site map not only gives me a visual view of how the pages within the subdirectory are linked, they also make it so easy to add pages. If the map-less programs have ways to add sequences, for example, I haven't found them. In CSB, I can set up my navigation links in the page layout, then just add pages where they go in the site map and the linking is there with no further mess. If I want the navigation links set up differently in, say, different levels of the pages, I just use different page layouts and then add whichever kind of page I want. On a topic's main page, I can add a list of all the pages in that section by using "create list from another sequence" - and it will even change the list as I add new pages or move current pages around.

Site maps are just so intuitive that I can't understand why other programs haven't incorporated them. The only explanation I can come up with is that they're particularly useful for visually-oriented people and, very generally speaking, people who create computer programs don't tend to be visually oriented. But that same bunch came up with Fortran flowcharts, didn't they? I still set up websites with a flowchart in my head - and the site map lets me see what I'm doing as I'm doing it. Building a site without a site map is like having to add each shape on a Fortran flowchart as a separate item on a list instead of being able to see how they interact as you write the program.

 

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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2007, 11:10:08 AM »
I still set up websites with a flowchart in my head - and the site map lets me see what I'm doing as I'm doing it. Building a site without a site map is like having to add each shape on a Fortran flowchart as a separate item on a list instead of being able to see how they interact as you write the program.

I've always used a flow chart even if it was just a mental picture for small sites.  Sometimes I get away from the original plan and I usually pay for it one way or the other.

Jim

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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2007, 02:05:40 PM »
Ok... are you folks looking for a site builder with:
1) visual representation of site map (like our little white/yellow squares) for internal and/or publication
2) outline list (like our outline) for internal navigation
3) a site map of page links for internal navigation and/or publication to the web

I found a #3 in a builder.  Haven't tested the program yet, but it has great rating at tucows. And contains TONS of things (maybe tooooo many things)....   Stay tuned.
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2007, 02:20:19 PM »
Personally, I'm looking for #1.  If #3 adds the navigation automatically as you add pages, it could be useful to some extent, but what I really want is the visual map.



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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2007, 02:30:56 PM »
I don't have a need for publishing a site map so that doesn't matter to me. I love the little squares for the visual of the site but even an outline would be better than nothing. I use mine to quickly find/add pages related to various topics and see the flow in these areas. In spinner there is a list where you can add pages and place them in what ever order you like but with that many pages I think it would be very difficult to remember and keep up with what is what and cause a lot of reading time through the list to jump to what ever page you are looking for. Even with the small number of pages I have at the site I built, I find it a timely pain in the backside when I need to navigate to another page in the working file.

One idea I have if I continue with spinner is to set up a page where I create my own visual site map linking my own squares to various pages. Since you can group things and or move them around it would be easy enough to do and make it look just like the one in Cute or use your own design if you wanted to. I would make it at the top of the list they provide so I can click on it and see my site the way I want to. I could hide this page when published. It wouldn't take that much more time and save tons of it for navigating to various sections of the site or finding a specific page. This may be an answer in other softwares as well.

I have been looking at two cows too Sam .. hmmm now you have me wondering which one you are talking about. ??? :)

 
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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2007, 09:23:45 AM »
HEHEHEHE.... the program to which I refer was being tried by RICK, and comments have been posted on this forum already (pasted from GS).  :)  

Here's a link directly to the sitemap function in EZ Generator  and prices are quoted in EUROS in large print, $129 in USD in small print :P   Click on the images and based on that, I think it WILL fit your needs!!
« Last Edit: July 28, 2007, 09:37:15 AM by Samrc »
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2007, 11:40:06 AM »
Ohhh Ok - I tried EZGenerator before choosing Spinner. My quick take here about it is that it wasn't as intuitive for me and I didn't like the sort of fill in the blank design elements it provides - BUT It remains on my maybe list especially due to the site map and it is the software I am still considering to use for the site's store area and shopping mall of the infamous site rebuild. lol The fill in the blank areas for adding items with photos might come in handy here. If I can figure out how to get the templates to match that may be my solution having these areas in sub folders and the base of my site in Spinner since I just really like the feel of that program. Thanks for telling me I have been looking at some others at Two Cows that weren't around the first time I checked. So far nothing really stands out as the "Perfect" solution for me. Well not that I expected one to. It is interesting to try different softwares and I think if a specific web site design comes along that certain ones would fit with I might buy a few before it is over. At least now I am more aware of what is out there and I think after being entirely dependent on Cute and then having them close shop it has taught me a good lesson. I need to be more flexible and proficient in more than one software.  :yes:



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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2007, 01:49:32 PM »
Quote
I need to be more flexible and proficient in more than one software.
It definitely helps!  But still have to say CSB is my favorite so far.  No thought to it.  I know it like the back of my hand and can manuever fastest in it.
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2007, 06:12:17 PM »
I must be missing something on the EZ Generator site. I see the little image that looks like a graphical sitemap (the image isn't clickable) and the statement that there's a "fully graphical" sitemap. But when I click on each of the three options all I see is a text outline - no graphical sitemap at all. Clicking on the screenshots does the same. Are there some images I'm not seeing?

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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2007, 09:37:27 PM »
The SITE MAP links take you to text links or a combo box.
But if you click the first image on the right, the EXPLORER PANE, it definitely shows folders, little page icons.  It is vertical and probably will stay like that.  Kinda looks like CSB's outline crossed with the MAP for icons.  I plan on downloading and trying it.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2007, 09:52:46 PM by Samrc »
-Samantha
TNG: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose" - Capt Picard to Data
(:turtle: In memory of Turtle: May 22, 1944 - Nov 24, 2007  GURU, mentor, and really nice guy! :turtleleft: )

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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2007, 12:16:14 PM »
A note about Coffeecup HTML Editor:

The best part of Coffeecup HTML Editor is that it has a visual editor as well as an HTML editor. It is not just a HTML editor. There is also a preview tab for previewing final pages before publishing. It has a built in image mapper too and can upload pages with its built-in ftp to a web server. I use it for problem pages but it does not manage an entire web site like CSB does. I really like it because what it does, it does well.
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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2007, 11:53:13 PM »
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There is also a preview tab for previewing final pages before publishing.

-- Yes, the preview tab is the missing piece for people who've had trouble with not being able to edit the HTML after switching to WYSIWYG mode to see what the page looks like. You can toggle back and forth between HTML and Preview all you want - it's going into the WYSIWYG editing mode that locks the HTML editing.


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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2007, 05:30:50 AM »
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...editing mode that locks the HTML editing.
I'm not exactly sure exactly what you are referring to as mine doesn't lock-up or freeze and works normally. Are you possibly referring to the forced file saving window that pops up when switching to the Visual Editor tab from either the Code Editor tab or the Preview tab? That pop-up message is there to prevent changes from being lost but you can switch it off under Tools>Preferences>General tab. I keept mine on in the beginning but switched it off once I became more confident with the software and have not lost any changes. I think it is there to warn users that the code gets optimized after dragging and dropping a lot but I have'nt noticed any changes that affect the visual look.
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Re: Coffeecup
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2007, 09:41:22 AM »
Yes, that's what I was talking about. A couple of people posting have complained about it. It didn't bother me, except that it took extra time. I didn't know you could turn it off - that's even better. Thanks.  :)