Samisite Webmaster Community Forum
General Category => FUN AND GAMES => TOYS & Game Systems => Topic started by: Samrc on June 19, 2009, 06:07:21 PM
-
I LOVE :hearts: LOVE :hearts: LOVE :hearts: playing with an ITOUCH 2nd generation that I received as a gift. SO MUCH FUN! Music and photos of course. But books (audio and printed), videos, full length movies, you tube, internet, GAMES that are silly and foolish. I even tried out the flashlight option when working under the computer desk...handy! I would not have bought it (cost) but have to say if I lost or broke it...I would try to come up with enough to replace it! It has to be my most favorite gadget. I have lots of FREE stuff on it, my own music (my mp3s that I burned from my own cd's) so it has not cost me big bucks to play with it. I use it to "test" internet sites I build for functionality.
I WISH the battery life was longer when using the video screen. Since it isn't, I can recommend a simple battery from DURACELL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJA-iUGSAwQ) that is GREAT for extending your time on PHONES, ipods (all kinds) and more. I get an extra 2-3 hours for the ITOUCH on video and far more for music only. Got mine from Amazon for $19.99.
You can do everything but call and take pictures. I have a camera and a phone, so I do not need those functions anyway.
-
I have the iPhone 3G 16GB which is absolutely fantastic! My favourite gadget too! It does all the same things as your iTouch, but of course is a phone too.
Just waiting to get back home next week so I can update to the recently released v3.0 software. It does a lot more, including stereo bluetooth from the built-in iPod, cut and paste and heaps more.
I also have the 80GB iPod, but mostly use the iPhone these days.
A great gadget!
Rick
-
I have never owned an ipod. Never got into the ipod drama. Couldn't see the need to have 30, 60, 80 or more gigabytes of space. I do not listen to THAT much music! And always have to recharge... :yuck:
I got a 1g mp3 player from Iriver because it used a AAA battery. I took it to Germany with me and listened to a 18 hour book, some music and a few mp3 old-time radio shows. Upgraded to a 2G version, an IRIVER T60 2GB mp3 player that I hang around my neck on a lariat/headphone. It's a tiny triangular tube (about 2" long), lightweight and so convenient. I listen to a little FM radio, or my music, but usally my audio books and old-time radio shows are on it. :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: Has been my constant companion for a couple years. Cheap. And the AAA battery gives me about 28 hours of play, and replaceable ANYWHERE. Worthless to other people, it is priceless to me! Can EASILY get two 12-16 hour books plus music plus mp3 radio shows on it. I would be lost without it. When I drive, I plug it into my FM transmitter and listen to the story through the car speakers. Makes the driving less stressful and on 1+ plus drives, it helps to keep me alert! If I had to choose just ONE toy, I would be torn between my low-tech tiny mp3 player, or my high-tech itouch.... Often wear my T60 listening to a story while I am playing a game on my itouch... I COULD put my stories on the itouch too. But it is a bit heavy to hang around the neck! ;)
I have debated paying the $10 for the v3 upgrade for the itouch....
Most of the helpful stuff would be more important to iphone users... Will probably do it next week...
I like my HTC Mogul smart phone (touch screen, camera, sliding keyboard, mobile windows, GPS/navigation, games, email, and everything I could possibly want in a phone). Pleased with it, firmware updates are simple and it syncs great with my PC. It works. Does the job well. No complaints.
But I LOVE :hearts: my Itouch toy in every way: the feel of it, the ease of it, the simplicity of it, the FUN of it.
The only down side is battery time. To have the phone AND itouch in one unit would be lovely, if I could afford to use it... My current phone was under a different usage plan (no longer offered) and I was grandfathered in. I pay about $60 less per month than most people with my phone, and yet I have a full data plan and full use of all features. :) Timing was right. ATT has the USA rights for the iphone. I am on Sprint. I won't switch phone service to get an iphone. BUT, when the iphone contract with ATT expires next year, I am HOPING Sprint will finally offer it, and that I can afford the phone plan...
-
I like the iPod 80GB primarily because I can fit all almost all of my music on it. I have hundreds of vinyl records and CD's collected over the years, and I have put almost all of them onto this tiny "cigarette box" - amazing. It is perfect for me because I travel a lot - so when I go up to my boat for a month or two I can easily take all my music with me, and it connects directly into the boat's stereo system - perfect! I don't have any problem with the battery life, it lasts 18 hours or so, and I can easily recharge it from my laptop, power outlet, car, or solar charger. It really is a great gadget.
I bought one of the first iPods ever available - in Hong Kong - before anyone had heard of iPods. It was 20GB and I only recently replaced it with the 80GB.
It probably is worth paying the $10 to upgrade your iTouch to v3. I always believe in keeping software up to date, and the v3 does offer some useful improvements.
-
Replying from my toy. What a joy.
Did I tell you that my Ipod has a purple shell?! :). It's so PRETTY and practical too. I will post a pic later today. It's sheer so you can see the ipod logo through it, yet has a pattern inside to maximize the light when it hits the grippy texture. So GLAD I put it on my toy!
Wish there was an easy way to move cursor foreword/backward while in typing mode. When i try to place my finger into the typed words, it seems I land a character away from where I want to be!
Yes, I expect that I will do the update...maybe I will get that control along with cut and paste???
I can see where the large iPod for someone like you would come in handy. As long as you have a way to charge it easily, what a benefit to have it on all your travels. When I was traveling, I had no access to computer so the AAA battery has been a lifesaver. Just run into a grocery or convenience store and more power.
(http://www.samisite.com/external/tn_DSC06221_90.jpg)
-
Sami, here's the trick! When you put your finger on the typed words, you get a "magnified" image of the place where the cursor is, right? No matter where the cursor is, just slide your finger along the line, and the cursor follows you to the place you want it to be! Well, that is the case for the iPhone. I imagine the iTouch is the same.
Rick
-
:hapscream: OMG! THANK YOU RICK! I can not believe it! I usually have it in landscape mode while typing and never saw the magnifying glass! The keypad takes up most of the horizontal space, and the little magnifying glass was ABOVE the visual area. When I went back to the portrait layout, I SAW and USED that lovely little tool. Now I feel stupid for never having seen it. THANK YOU for pointing it out to me! :boogie:
I played FLIGHT CONTROL for an hour today. Addicting little nothing game. Well worth the dollar.
-
Happy you found that "magnifying glass"!
The games application I use the most is Yahtzee. It is a great little game which is great to play when you have some time to fill in, such as waiting for a plane, etc.
Just got back home, and doing the v3 update right this minute! Will let you know.
Rick
-
Are you playing IZEE or Yahtzee Adventure? Those are the only games like that. (I have a real Yahtzee game in my cupboard. Used to play it or backgammon all the time!)
Just found ColorCross. I got addicted to that on a co-worker's Nintendo DS unit. For months, I borrowed her DS at lunch so I could play a hidden object game or ColorCross! It's expensive for the itouch though.
One of the reasons to upgrade to 3.0 is to get a horizontal keyboard. But I already get one when I am on the forum, etc. See:
(http://www.samisite.com/external/tn_DSC06437_90.jpg)
(http://www.samisite.com/external/tn_DSC06438_90.jpg)
I don't do my mail in this toy. I use my PHONE for that.
Do you not have a sideways keyboard for the mail?
-
Yes, it is Yahtzee Adventures that I use - great graphics!
I do have a sideways keyboard application for mail, but that is now redundant, as v3 has a landscape keyboard for most of the major applications, including mail. The cut and paste from one application to another is great too.
I use the iPhone for mail, but only when away from my PC or laptop. It is quite good for mail, but still not as convenient as the PC.
-
So you LIKE the 3.0 upgrade? ???
Flight Control, Bloons, and Unblock me free are my favorite game apps right now.
Love the simple built-in clock with the TIMER and STOPWATCH modes - use them all the time. Work in the background while doing other things. Convenient! Great for cooking :P
-
The 3.0 upgrade is OK. Nothing revolutionary but some useful improvements. Apple says over 100 changes, but actually there are only a handful of useful everyday improvements. For me, these are: stereo bluetooth, landscape keyboard, cut copy and paste between applications (works well!), search facility, and MMS (which should have been there from the beginning)
Having an iPhone, I got v3 for free, but I think if I had an iTouch, I would pay the money, as I always like to keep software up to date.
-
Are the iPhone speakers good for using it as a hands-free phone when on the move? I am looking for a mobile GSM phone that can take two sim cards which are simultaneously on-air at the same time. Do you know of any?
-
Ed, the iPhone speakers/mic work well as a hands-free. I use it often. It also has bluetooth so you can use a bluetooth hands-free which I mostly use when driving. I have a bluetooth "bug" which clips onto the sunvisor and works really well. Sorry, not aware of phones which can take two sim cards on air at the same time.
Rick
-
Sorry, not aware of phones which can take two sim cards on air at the same time.
same here
-
Hey Sami, you have got me hooked on Flight Control!
I am up to 91 so far on the one with seaplanes. How about you?
-
rofl Addictive isn't it??? rofl It is really a great time waster!
You have given me a target to reach. :clapping: I hate the BIG planes as they do not travel at the same rate. I end up crashing when one of them is in the mix!
I have been playing UNBLOCK ME (free version) simple wood slider game this weekend. It's a logic game gotta think a few steps ahead on some of them, which is very difficult for me. I am up to level 194 (skipped about 10 or 11 so far and will have to go back to them.
And I am embarrassed :-[ to say that I have been a bubble town player for over a year now. Have the pc version of the software that has the TOWN game and an unlimited arcade version (vertical and ball modes). The town took me no time at all to complete on the pc, but the arcade mode has very difficult levels that I can not complete. Have gotten my money worth. This weekend I added bubble town to my itouch too. :-[
I got my 3.0 update (had to pay for it :yuck:) but like the copy/paste function. Comes in handy for emails (when I am in a wifi range).
Got any other apps lately?
-
I enjoy Flight Control but it can be frustrating! Yes, I agree, you need to be careful of the faster speed of the larger planes. I also got Unblock Me after you mentioned it, but I am hopeless at it. Had lots of trouble with the lowest level. Seems my brain is not compatible with it! hehe
I have heaps of applications, but not many games. The applications I use the most, apart from the standard ones, are: Wifi Discover (for transferring files between iphone and PC), Skype, Chinese dictionary, Oxford Dictionary, Aye Tides (tide charts), Yahtzee, Shanghai Metro map, iTap (use iPhone as a wireless mouse for controlling my model trains), and most recently, Flight Control.
-
I use my phone for mapping/navigation since I can be connected to the phone network just about everywhere.
Skype might be quite nice on the itouch for here at home...HMMM... will consider that one...
I need a wifi app...since I have the itouch instead of iphone, I do not have constant connectivity.
Can connect at home/work only at this point.
That limits the connected 'uses' compared to an iphone.
So I call it my 'toy'.
I tend to use it for games, reading books, listening to audio files.
I was pleased to find that just before going to see the new star trek movie, I was able to download and read the 4 star trek comic books that tell the story of the how Spock went back in time and who the bad guy from the movie really is. (:-[ guilty pleasure)
I have my 8GB unit almost full. Lots of apps. I have a spanish dictionary (not very good) and a spanish tutor (again not very good). Still looking for better of those.
Your ITAP looks really neat! Has some good reviews too. Would never have thought about using your phone as a wireless mouse!
-
Flight control has now added a free update that allows itouch and iphones to interact!
If you have someone near you with compatible equipment you can send your planes to them!!! rofl
-
Just got the update. I will give it a try. My wife has an iPhone too.
Rick
-
I am so sad. :verysad: no one to play it with :verysad:
The people around here with iphones are to SERIOUS and will not PLAY. :'(
And my family/friends all have other types of equipment. No itouch/iphones. :verysad:
Tell me how it goes!
-
Oh! So sad! :'(
I did not have time to try it yet. Hmm, I wonder if it can work over the internet, then we could play together! >:D
-
Neat idea :clapping: That flight control looks like it would be a fun 2 player game, sending planes to the other person.
I have been playing TAP DEFENSE too. (I am a fan of the online game bloon tower defense kongregate.com/games/Ninjakiwi/bloons-tower-defense and tap defense is the closest I have found for the itouch.)
Told you I consider this my TOY. :D Like the quick little games that take only a few minutes to play. Can fit them in at the bank, waiting in line somewhere, etc.
I have a nintendo ds too that would allow multi-player games. And one of my co-workers was bringing hers so we could battle during lunch, but they no longer allow them on the property. She was accessing hers during working time :nofinger: so none of us get to play during lunch.
-
I only have a few games on my iPhone. Generally I am not so interested in computer games, and have none on my PCs. I have the ones on the iPhone for exactly the reason you mentioned - they are great for filling in time when waiting for something. Yahtzee is still my favourite of the ones I have.
It is incredible that within 1 year, the Apple App Store has around 13,000 games!
-
I am SOOOO impressed with the quality of the apps. Beautiful and load well. They can do so much with so little.
The first game I got is tiny, simple and really pretty ugly: TRACE. FUN logic. Just have to draw a line for your little man to walk on. Simple. Child's play! >:D ADDICTIVE! Finished it quickly and am HOPING they come out with an update or new version of it.
-
I found a fantastic new iPhone application today, which shows just how incredibly useful the iPhone/iTouch concept is.
I may have mentioned before, one of my hobbies is model trains. All my trains are digitally controlled by a "DCC" controller so that many trains can run and be independently controlled at the same time. In addition, this controller connects by ethernet to my network, so that it can be even more comprehensively controlled by train controller software on my PC.
Today, I found an iPhone application which turns my iPhone into a wireless controller for the entire train system! It links by wifi to my network, and through that to the DCC controller, emulating all the key functions of the controller. Now I can walk all around my train layout, operating it wirelessly with the iPhone, without the cost of buying an expensive, dedicated wireless controller. Magic!
Rick
-
:bdballoon: :clapping: :bdballoon: :clapping: :bdballoon:
How fabulous! What's the name of the app?
-
TouchCab
-
WOW! That app is great in the writeup. If it does half of what it says, what a find.
(We had trains and cars growing up in Germany. My dad made this whole room with mountains, people, towns, you name it. Autos had to wait for the trains (had neat crossings with arms that would drop down). Was GREAT family fun. :clapping: Could each control something. Sold off all to get money to come back to states. Sad day!) :(
By the way, on the iphone, how do you save a website's user name/password so you don't have to put it in each time? I have a page on a website that is limited to just one person. He has to put in username/password every time.
Yet this site for me keeps me signed in on my itouch..... Don't know what to tell him to do differently.
-
From what I can see, iPhone (Safari) does not have facility to retain login details. It comes back to the particular website to create the cookies. This site also logs me in automatically on my iPhone, I think because the site itself asks you how long you want to stay logged in for, with one option being "forever".
I can't think of any other explanation.
-
Thanks. I could not find a way and I am glad to find out I am not blind.
-
I'm allowed to upgrade my mobile phone according to contract rules, and have been considering the new iPhone 3Gs (especially for it's clear screen) but am not sure I will adapt easily as I have been using the Windows Mobile OS (currently WM6) on various devices such as a Motorola non-touch screen device or a touch screen device such as a Samsung i780 which is very flexible and there is tons of software on the web, some free but often not worth the hassle of installing. Have any of you had the experience of both systems and know how they compare? I am asking because as far as I know the Apple iPhone is the only device that can handle the iPhone OS so I can't trial it on my Windows compatible devices. There are lots of reviews on the web but they all seem to be biased.
-
I can't compare the iPhone with anything I have used Ed. I had an old Palm years ago, but the iPhone is light years ahead of that. It really is an amazing machine, could not do without it now!
Rick
-
Have any of you had the experience of both systems and know how they compare?
Yup. Me. :)
I have a Sprint Mogul (HTC Mogul PPC-6800) smartphone phone with WM6, touch screen, sliding full keyboard, gps w/navigation software, mobile office (word, excel, powerpoint), Internet Explorer and Skyfire browsers and more.
I also have an Itouch 2g (has all features except phone) and have access to multiple IPhone 3G phones in the office (help to set them up and hear the current comments about them).
As to getting used to the difference of the OS, the iphone is SIMPLE and EASY to learn and use. I recently recommended to our company owner that when he replace his flip style phones (4 employees) for smart phones, they should go with iphone instead of WM6 powered smartphones. The WM6 is a small computer comes complete with the standard start menu. Two employees are not real tech savy and I knew that the iphone/itunes interface would be a MUCH better fit overall for them. THEY LOVE the iphone and have had no problems adapting.
I like BOTH. But I am glad to have two different types of technology.
Each has it's special features and best abilities.
I will gather a few of my thoughts about pro/cons of each both and post later today. :)
-
Thanks Rick and Sam. I've used so many add on software programs for Windows Mobile that I've lost track. For me its almost an extension of my arm I can't function without. However, WM can take a long time to make things work whereas it sounds like iPhone just works from day one. Ive done "everything" with WM devices in the past, from presentations to boiling an egg. However, currently my main use is voice calls, email, SMS & MMS, syncing to network, & music when in the air.
-
With iPhone you can add movies to your music when flying. Many low cost airlines charge for movies these days so I just pull out my iPhone. The picture quality is excellent.
-
Long winded.
I like BOTH. Each has it's special features and best abilities.
- For internet, most activity, I prefer the Iphone. The movement is natural and you can see the webpages in full or move in to read sections easily. MUCH EASIER to move around the web page and update on the forum, etc. Iphone/Itouch uses SAFARI for surfing. Quite nice. But as discussed earlier in this thread, does not remember passwords for secure pages/sites. I use my itouch to look at existing web pages to see if I need to move/adjust the content to be centered better, etc. You would be amazed at how handy that aspect is. Bookmarking is faster and easier. Iphone does not show flash.
- Internet Explorer on WM6 is less responsive, old style (menu driven rather than touch driven) and will not show the webpage in full, tables overlap, pages do not hold the shape properly. However, if you put Skyfire in your WM6 device, it's closer to the iphone experience for looking at and interacting with the web (not the same, but MUCH closer). MUCH prefer it over my IE in the WM6 phone. Skyfire does allow you to see flash on your mobile device.
- Both show PDF documents well but again the navigation onscreen on the iphone is superior. Some tables in WM6 are good while I have an excel created web page that can not be seen properly in FF on pc or Safari on iphone/itouch. I was pleasantly surprised to find that I could open excel and word files fine in itouch to view. Could not edit either like I can on WM6, but I expect there is probably an app for that. ;)
- Apps on Iphone/itouch are great, easy to find, easy to install/uninstall/update/backup. Productivity to games, trivia, hardware, can even run your model trains like Rick does with the iphone. Tons free, many low cost. Generally, they are FAR less expensive than apps for WM6 (compared to what I have bought, considered for both units). As far as using your phone for presentations, I am not sure if the itouch can do that. Might look at the apps in itunes to see....
- Quality of the screen, imagery is superior on the iphone/itouch vs my Mogul w/WM6.
- The itouch/iphone plays downloaded movies, tv shows, music, audio books with excellent quality. I could do some of that on my Mogul/WM6 but the screen quality and controls on iphone/itouch are superior for entertainment features. Note that iphone will not play windows media files and WM6 does not play the files that are compatible w/itouch. WM6 will work on sites like hulu.com (to watch tv shows online) that work with flash. Iphone won't, but does work for some videos on YouTube.com I have watched full length 2+ hour movies on my itouch with amazing clarity. (I have watched a few episodes of missed shows on my cell phone using hulu.com when stuck somewhere waiting for 30 minutes or more...)
- Iphone is easy to load/remove content using Itunes. Easy to choose the content to load on the unit (check boxes in lists). WM6 uses Active Sync. I have had to upgrade my ram and OS on my Mogul 3 times. Each time I lose settings, applications must be reinstalled, some lose the progress. I retain most of the settings but lose some of the special ringtones I use. I have backed up and upgraded the itouch. Easier and better than WM6. One time while updating the itouch, I got a REALLY BAD error, program said I had to use a backup of the previous settings to fix (would not work at all). It took me less than 5 minutes to get the itouch back to EXACTLY where it had been, then went through the process again to upgrade the OS. Smooth as silk. No data or settings loss even with the major error!! Much prefer that to the Active Sync that is not an exact replica of the WM6 phone.
- The battery on my Mogul WM6 lasts far longer than my itouch. This is a great disappointment. Iphones have longer battery life than itouch but still not as strong as my Mogul. Keep a cord available if you have iphone/iitouch and use the screen alot. (Can set the brightness down to help conserve battery).
- Iphone's upgrade to OS 3.0 gave full copy/paste functions making texting on both about the same for ability and simplicity. Much prefer my slide-out QWERTY keyboard on my Mogul to the keyboard on the iphone/itouch. But, when in horizontal mode, the keyboard is wider/bigger on ipod and is acceptable. Note: If you have fat fingers, you should TRY it first. You can not use a regular stylus with the iphone/itouch. Some men don't care for the onscreen keyboard. There are special stylus units available for iphones but don't know if they really work as well as finger. I can use my finger on the Mogul's touch screen, but I prefer using a stylus for some features. Mogul screen stays cleaner (more stylus time = less finger slime). :) Typing an email on my Mogul is much faster and easier than the iphone/itouch because of the keyboard function. Also like the tactile feel of the buttons being pushed. Don't get that from onscreen keyboard.
- The iphone/itouch has sensitivity for how level you are holding the unit. This leads to some fun apps, and some very practical uses. The unit senses when you have changed from vertical to horizontal mode and will flip your screen without your intervention. My Mogul will sometimes flip, sometimes I have to remind it. :P
- Both units file/sort images but the iphone/itouch does it better. Everything is in one storage area, not part on the phone, part on a storage card. Sometimes I find it frustrating that if I take an image with my phone, it stores on the phone and I have to move it to the storage card. Iphone/itouch has ONE storage area. Yes you can make folders to store your images, but easier than WM6.
- WM6 is cranky sometimes. The resources are sometimes slow to recover (opening, closing apps). I phone tends to recover faster/better but this is something that still plagues the iphone/itouch with some apps that are resource hogs. Overall, itouch/iphone are better than WM6 but both need improvement. WM6 is more difficult to get around in, but does tend to offer many excellent options. Iphone OS is simple and straight forward. All options are basically in the SETTINGS area. No real menus like WM6.
- I use my itouch to boil eggs! Really. I LOVE the timer in the itouch/iphone. You can set simple count down timer to go off (like the scifi sound...can hear it in the other room) and use it when I am cooking. I have a kitchen timer going for one thing, itouch going for something else.
- Phone book in iphone will sync well with OUTLOOK, GMAIL and other software. But if you use business contact manager (BCM) with Outlook, you will require a 3rd party software to get it to work. There is only one choice for that too and it is expensive. Microsoft will not support ipods, and say so boldly on their site. If you are trying to sync your phone to a SERVER instead of a local pc for email, iphone may not be your best bet at this time.
- Cost...well, here my Mogul with WM6 wins hands down. It was one of the most advanced smart phones when it came out and I chose it over the Palm equivalent for two reasons: slide out keyboard and prefered WM6 to Palm OS (bad experience with another person using it and could NOT get it resolved without a lot of data loss!). WM6 phone in my area is available on Sprint. The monthly plan I pay for on the Mogul (with touch screen, WM6, gps, navigation, audible, internet, .....more) includes unlimited data and is 1/3 the cost of the iphone plans (in this area). I am not on the Sprint 3G network. That would bump my cost UP to 2/3 the iphone monthly plan through AT&T. I am satisfied with standard internet access for my phone at this point. IF Sprint offered the iphone the next time I upgrade, I would consider it strongly, IF the cost of the monthly plan keeps me in the same range I am now. Of course your phone/data plans will be different than my area but generally speaking the iphone data plans cost more than most other smart phones...they can charge it because people are willing to pay it. :) Think that will eventually level out.
Sound quality on phone calls is about the same on my phone/boss's iphone.
As I said, I recommended the iphone to my boss. He and another employee are very non-tech people and find the controls, app, interface with itunes very easy. One had a Palm OS on his smart phone and never really learned to use it. He is zooming through the iphone like a pro. Right choice for him!
MOGUL/WM6 favorite features: keyboard, mo connection price, MS office fully compatible, stylus, gps/navigation software makes life much easier, battery life
Iphone/Itouch favorite features: "cool" factor, the "it" toy, more sensitive touch screen with FLICK and TILT movements (makes you smile to use it), internet use, entertainment (movies, music, videos, photos) quality is superior to my WM6 unit, ease and quantity of tiny useful apps, smooth interface with pc with less loss than Active Sync.
If you know someone that has an iphone, ask to borrow it. Get a feel for it.
If it fits your hands and budget, it will probably fit your needs.
Impressive piece of technology that just makes you want to find out what ELSE this little thing can do!
Makes the competition look clunky and disorganized by comparison.
-
:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
:thankyousign:
Hi Sami & Rick,
Wow Sami! I read your post with lots of interest. Thanks to you and also to Rick for the good tip. I am a music junkie, so my headphones travel with me and I read books until I am oblidged to put the light off for fear of disturbing the neighboring seats.
Sami, one can download a trial of SPB Shell 3.0 here: h**p://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/?en
It has transformed my WM into a finger friendly almost stylus free touch phone and works exceptionally well on my Samsung i780. I also prefer a hard key keyboard.
The iPhone specs say it has "assisted GPS" navigation and I have no idea what they mean by that. The i780 has a built-in Garmin GPS and software that works well, and one can buy additional maps. TomTom can also be installed on some WM devices. I however, prefer a separate GPS device though.
Overall, the iPhone seems to be the most user friendly PDA/mobile phone. My options are currently; Apple iPhone, Samsung Omnia, or maybe a Blackberry (either the bold or the touch screen one)
Thanks
PS I love the feature on the iPhone where when one takes a photo and say decide to focus on something closer or further, simply by tapping that area on the screen, makes that the focusing point.
-
My mogul could be mostly finger control but the screen is not as sensitive as the ipod unit. Expects a finer selection than the tip of a finger. AND that TILT ability is not on my WM6 phone (newer WM6 units will have a version of it). Iphone was unique, first and best for that feature.
If you are a reader, consider the Iphone for reading. :yes:
I have a couple book apps on my itouch, including a free KINDLE app! I can purchase a book from Amazon, download through itunes and read in my itouch. If I had a Kindle (don't but wish I did) you can sync your reading from both units! SWEET. Both the reader apps allow excellent control of speed, font (size and type), lighting, colors, makes it very pleasnt to read books from my itouch. Also use Audible downloadable books in both my Mogul and itouch. itouch wins again because my standard headphones fit. Have to use a converter plug on my Mogul. :banghead:
Read about the ASSISTED GPS in IPHONE here: h**p://artoftheiphone.com/2008/06/10/iphone-3g-what-is-assisted-gps/
I have a gps chip in my cell phone. And Telenav (sprint navigation) with constant continual updates live. No maps in my phone. Never becomes outdated since getting live feed each time you connect to the service. Visual maps, Audible directions, can see different types of maps, directions (just arrows, moving map, traffic options, etc). Glad it is part of the phone. No separate hardware, no separate program to load/update. Fully portable and will connect to server anywhere I get phone service. I have used it as a compass, to locate businesses/phone numbers instead of calling 411 or googling. Love this service!!! Would not want to lose it. Comes in handy, like having a phone directory AND atlas in my pocket...even shows me the gas prices at local stores (right within 6 hours usually!). My mother has a Tom Tom (made by Garmin) and it is quite nice. My phone can do everything she can do!
Course if you have access to the web, you can get info live online from NAVTEQ.COM too....directions, traffic, etc.
The way iphone handles photos in general, and taking images is the best I have seen without having special apps installed.
Out of the box, the iphone/itouch does more, more easily and quicker than any phone I have used or tried. Then you add the apps and OMG... What a TOY! These people really made something Fabulous.
Don't get me wrong. iphone/itouch are not perfect. There are some things they can not do. And Microsoft does not want to play with them. But in general, the iphone and itouch make you WANT to find new ways to use them! They trigger imagination....
-
I've thought about the Kindle and the new Kindle DX, but will wait until a color version becomes available, if it does. Audible is great and works very well over the i780 speaker too when e.g. in a car and driving long distances alone. On a plane with a good novel, you can close your eyes, listen and the journey seems shorter. One needs good headphones to block out the background noise though. I've tried noise canceling headphones from Sony, but constant noise still gets through and they only block-out a sudden rise in noise and not all of it, like a bang.
Thanks for the ref. on AGPS which is clear now. The iPhone determines its location on a map from data obtained via cellphone network towers without a GPS radio built-in instead of directly from satellites with a GPS radio. The towers that the iPhone use, are linked to a server that uses GPS.
One thing I still have to find out about is "push email", like the Blackberry has. I can get a similar service from my cellphone service provider (SP) that will provide it for any WM device that has GPRS/3G, for a monthly subscription, but then all my email has to be routed through the SP's server, and I'm unaware of what is implied regarding our mail server set-up for that to work. Another aspect, may be the increased GPRS/3G costs for all the emails. One thing leads to another, never ends!
-
Ed, I am intrigued! What is the purpose of the novel? :hapscream:
On a plane with a good novel, you can close your eyes, listen and the journey seems shorter.
-
I'd say its purpose is entertainment, and in this particular case, the greater the entertainment value the shorter the agony of the being confined to the seat and limited airplane space over the duration of the flight which can be 8-11 hours.
-
Audible is great and works very well over the i780 speaker too when e.g. in a car and driving long distances alone. On a plane with a good novel, you can close your eyes, listen and the journey seems shorter.
ABSOLUTELY! My Audible account is my one true vice that I really don't want to ever give up.
I plug the mp3 player into my auto (using FM transmitter) and drive long distances listening to books. Used to rent/borrow tapes and cds. Then found audible and my life changed for the GOOD! A trip that I make weekly is several hours round trip. Turn on my book and I do not notice the time. I stay awake better, I am more aware of my surroundings and tuned into the road because my mind is being challenged. When I flew the last few times, my mp3 player helped keep my sanity. So much hurry/wait time. And I did not have my PC with me. When I went to Germany a couple years ago, I loaded my mp3 player with 2 LONG Audible books. While experiencing train travel through the German countryside, I listened to a book which had sections about the two characters traveling throughout Europe, some on trains...fit with the trip. Added to my enjoyment of the trip!
I have been known to wear my mp3 player, listening to a book, while doing MANY other tasks. I wore my mp3 player to work for two years, working at my desk. Sometimes listening to a book, sometimes music or talk (old radio programs). I have my tiny mp3 player with me in my purse now and when I go grocery shopping later, I will put it on (one ear covered)!
What is the purpose of the novel?
Purpose of a novel???? ??? ??? ???
Oh my! This question makes me ask, Rick are you a pleasure reader?
People accustomed to sitting down to just read for pleasure not work wouldn't usually ask a question like that.
Why do people read books at all? So many reasons....!
Entertainment. Enjoyment. Edification. Escape.
In paper, electronic or audio format, it makes no difference to me. I am an avid reader with a very eclectic taste.
Sappy romance (Harlequin novels) with stupid females are NOT on my reading list! Political, biographical, murder, investigation, true crime, sci-fi, fantasy, horror are all game!
Most pleasure readers will even read the side of a box or bag if that is all that is available....
rofl
I work with a lot of people that would NEVER pick up a novel for pleasure. Waste of time.
My headphones were made for only a few years then the company sold that part of the business to another company. The new company discontinued the line I really like and now produce very HIGH COST units. I bought several of the type I like from Ebay when they were discontinued (at 12% of original cost!!!). They do well with noise reduction. They are not designed to be like the BOSE headsets that block out airplane engines, but do enough for me. I am set for years to come...break a set, grab another from my stash.
-
Sorry guys, I missed Ed's point. :-[ I was wondering what he does with the novel while he has his eyes closed listening to music. Now I realise, he was talking about an audio book! Oops!
-
rofl rofl rofl :clapping:
-
Rick - now I understand why you asked your question. Audible works with the iPhone and other iPods too:
h**p://www.audible.com/adbl/site/LandingPages/AAXLandingPage.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
I did not know this, but it also works with the Kindle and a Garmin Nuvi, probably via bluetooth.
Sami - I am the same about Audible and have even burned CD's for my Mom as some of the books are burnable. A colleague has the "on the ear" BOSE and bought them because they are slightly smaller than the "over the ear" BOSE type. Initially he thought they were good, but said that wearing them for an hour+ becomes unbearable due to the pressure. If I ever get them I will sacrifice the space saving for the comfort and go for the bigger ones, but gee! they are expensive and I'm not sure they are worth it. I saw a shop in downtown Chicago that is dedicated to BOSE products. Philips has some noise canceling ones too that are more reasonably priced.
-
Thanks Ed! I was not aware of Audible. Downloading a David Baldacci book right now! Trying out the enhanced audio.
Rick
-
Audible.com has thousands of books for download and is compatible with virtually all mp3 players. Even models they do not officially recognize. I have had 2 Iriver mp3 players (second shown below) and dearly love them. Sound quality is EXCELLENT! Though inexpensive and less storage (compared to ipods) both allowed me to have use AAA batteries. No matter where I go, this is with me and does not need recharging. Just stop to get a battery and go. Perfect for traveling. This version has FM radio AND player together and usually hang it from my lariat/headphone combination (love them!). The older one was a bit thicker and no radio but just as great quality of sound. Audible does not acknowledge the one shown, but it works GREAT with audible. Currently have 3 books loaded, 120 songs and 12 hours of old radio classics and some interviews. Plenty of room for me. I swap content when I finish my books.
Audible came preinstalled on my mogul phone, :boogie: works with my itouch :D , and is installed on my pc and laptop. Any type of recorded material (EXCEPT HARRY POTTER SERIES!) and with the memberships, the cost goes down considerably compared to what I paid for books on cassettes and cds. Some of the "Specials" they offer can save $$ too. I also have burned some on disks for my mom to enjoy. Offered some stories to my boss (also an avid reader) for driving but she is thinks it would distract her too much. ???
Good to know about the Bose on ear. If I flew alot, I would get the big ones. Otherwise the ones I have are exactly the right fit/sound for me.
Do you ever listen to the weekday New York Times/Wall Street Journal audio subscriptions? I haven't ever. Might be nice for daily commuters...
Started my post while you were typing Rick... Glad to see you have given it a try.... You will get hooked!
(The last Baldacci audio I got was split second in audio format 4. Have not tried the enhanced yet)
I apologize for assuming that you knew what me meant by "Audible" Rick. I understand your novel question now. Makes perfect sense! (Though at the time you really had me stumped! :-[)
(http://www.samisite.com/external/tn_irivermp3_on_headset.jpg)
-
I listen to news podcasts regularly, either in iTunes or on my WM device when in the air.
Have you seen MusicBridge (h**p://jrmwillis.googlepages.com), a shareware program which syncs data between WMP and iTunes.
-
No had not heard of it. Will check it out.
I have non-protected copies of the protected music from both WMP and Itunes so it can be played in either and on any little player. Really RESENT buying music legally and yet do not have the right to play it on MY own portable technology! Used to have to burn a cd, then reimport the music as unprotected. For the last two years, I have used a little program noteburner to convert my protected to unprotected by burning the music to a virtual CD. One step and ALL the music is compatible without wasting real CDs! Simple, elegant solution. Itunes now offers non-protected formats, but even when you sign up for that, some items still come in as protected.
-
I've heard of this but do not really know what the difference between protected and unprotected is. If it refers to copyright, all my CD's are copyright protected as far as I know but can be ripped to my hard disk with WMP and then sync'd to any of my WM devices. In fact I've been doing it for years and have been told it is perfectly legal. The problem is when copies are made for resale which is of course illegal. The first thing I do when I buy a CD is rip it to my HD and I haven't listened to a CD in a CD player, except in my car, for a few years now.
Sami, your headphones look similar to mine, Sennheiser CX, in-the-ear type. Did you know there is mounting evidence that the in-the-ear type, although providing a better listening experience because they block-out more noise, are damaging the hearing of more and more people. My excuse is, life is too short!
-
Copyright protection on music....
WMP does rip CDs and have done that with equal success to yours. But the problem comes in when you buy&download music from iTunes and other legit sources, they would lock the music. You could play it on the machine that you bought it on and transfer to some players but not all. The music remained locked. To transfer it to another computer, you had to transfer the licenses too. You were also limited how many times you burned a playlist. I wanted to play the music I bought on my equipment and the protection would not allow the music to play. Format was not supported without the license. Some people also had problems moving files from one pc to another. Sometimes the license file would get screwed up and then you had music files that were worthless. Iunderstand that the music companies were trying to stop fraud, multiple reproduction of copyrighted material. But it really ended up hurting and interfering with legit consumers like me. I was not using an IPOD brand mp3 player and it interfered with their protection. My unit plays regular mp3 files but will not play protected mp3 file. I have some that only play with WMP and some that play on iTunes. After converting them using my virtual cd, I can play on iPod, mp3 player, cd player and my laptop and pc, as it should be!
The problem with any headphone in and out of ear: volume. Many of the kids that use them set high bass and high volume. They also drive around in cars with music so loud it buzzes my teeth in the next car. My little player can take volume to 30. I have it set on 6 or 7 most of the time. And more often than not, I have only one ear covered. When both are listening, I have volume usually down to 5. My ears are extremely sensitive and they will remain that way going into my old age if I have anything to do with it. :)
-
Thanks for the explanation. Now I understand. It's like some of my Audible downloads that can't be copied. I only use iTunes for newscasts which are free and probably not protected. I've never downloaded music, so it must be some type of technology that protects it. I've always preferred to have the original CD in-case something goes wrong with my PC. I still have a few LP's which I want to copy to CD one day but need to get the gear to do it.
By the way, I discovered the new iPhone called 'iPhone 3G s" has got a faster processor allowing its software to run quicker and reports say that its a pleasure to use due to the faster response time. Reports here are very encouraging. A friend who knows all about mobile phones said I should stay away from the two HTC WM phones, particularly the TYTN II, and the Diamond, both of which looked as interesting alternatives.
There is a software program called Ziepod from h**p://www.ziemantics.com. I've looked at it on a friends machine but not used it. He said it works great for podcasts.
-
I have copied my audible aa files to an external backup drive. Without the right authorization (audible player with license) those files would not play for someone else. Similar technology but much easier to work with. Audible files have similar protection but do not max out how many times and ways you can transfer the files. I have a couple favorite books that I have put on multiple devices and cd. All mine, all legit and no limitation. mp3 licensing was worse by far. Really nasty stuff. And it did not stop people from sharing files after converting to unprotected versions. Not even a bump in the road for people that steal, but a real headache for honest folks!
I also prefer CDs and have converted many of them into mp3. Have some cassettes & LPs that will never be put on cd or download and would like to convert them eventually. I used to book bands for our college and have many first/demo albums with some fun music. Sometimes I buy individual songs from iTunes...ex a song from a movie soundtrack and I don't want the whole cd. Have also bought David Cook's AmIdol performances (not available on cd).
iPhone 3GS...my boss just turned in his new iPhone to upgrade to that one. Had the other for less than 2 weeks and turned it in! He says it much faster. I dunno anything about current HTC phones. But as I said before, if sprint offered iPhones and could afford the plan, I would get that.
-
I guess we are lucky in Australia - iPhone is available from all the major carriers (about 6), so we have lots of choice in that respect, and there is a lot of competition - but the eprice is still high, especially for data plans. I mostly only use my iPhone for data when connected to a wifi hotspot, not with the 3G connection.
-
In USA, AT&T has the monopoly on the Iphone. Only carrier that is allowed to offer it. Think I read somewhere that deal will end next year and other carriers will finally be able to get on board.
Personally, I wish I had a MIFI. Pretty fabulous device. I could get online anywhere with my itouch, ds, laptop, phone, you name it! Tempting, but the monthly cost is too rich for me.... :verysad:
-
I have another concern about the iPhone 3Gs. Do you know if it will sync all the fields in Outlook Contacts including e.g. Company Phone 2, Home Phone 2, Spouse, Notes, etc. I've been told that iPhone does not sync these fields but can't find it in the iPhone documentation web site.
What are the monthly costs? My SP offers the MiFi on a 24 month contract for $75/m which includes 500MB on HSDPA, or you can buy it for $350 for the 5 user version.
-
contacts have these
phone numbers:
mobile, iphone, home, work, main, home fax, work fax, pager, other
email:
home, work, other
URL:
home page, home, work, other
Address:
street1, street2, city, state, zip, country, home, work, other
Can add custom fields under phone numbers, email, url, address and other.
Itunes syncs with regular Outlook but not BCM (business contact manager).
You can also import all your contact info using csv file.
mifi is a $300 unit which is on sale for $99 with 2yr new contract for data connection @60/mo for 5GB/mo transfer! (Sprint and Verizon). Still too pricey for me.
Verizon also offers a limited connection (250mb/mo) for $40/mo with one or two year commitment. (like the shorter commitment!). One thing that may be a good idea...could use the mifi in place of cable connection at home...one charge for $60/mo that can be used in the home or traveling! One bill, two uses.... Neat little device...will think about it!
-
Outlook 2003 has approximately 140 default contact fields. I don't know about BCM as I decided not to use it. Some are just flags that can be selected and do not contain data but the majority are data fields. Windows Mobile 6.0 Pro syncs about 60 of these fields so it does not sync all of them. Several years ago I was a Palm fan but Windows CE, although less stable than the Palm OS, was so much more powerful that I migrated across.
Thanks for the info on the fields.
-
Found a lovely site that discusses the contact fields, palm, wm6 and iphone.
Take a look here: http://www.realtown.com/larry2/blog/what-fields-in-outlook-sync-to-your-phone
-
Good find! Good article!
There a lot more going on behind the scenes during a sync than meets the eye.
Thanks
-
Sami,
I was re-reading your post about your iRiver's. Can it play Audible's book format 'AA' and sync with Audible's manager?
On Saturday I was told to turn my Windows Mobile Samsung i780 completely off on a flight on Saturday even though the incorporated phone (as well as the WiFi, Bluetooth, & GPS) was turned off. This renders the device as completely useless, however MP3 players are permitted after takeoff and before landing. The reason I was given by the air hostess was, "the manufacturers can not guarantee us (the airline) that devices would not interfere with the airplanes instruments when the device is on, even though the phone is off or in flight-mode".
:fly:
-
I know exactly what you mean. My smart phone has audible built in and yes, if I had depended on it during flight, I would have been out of luck too.
But was allowed to use my tiny mp3 player with no problem.
Yes. Both my iriver units T30 and T60 work beautifully with Audible. Audible is the primary purpose for my players. I like my music too, but most often am listening to a story. Note that T30 (1gig red) is listed as supported and T60 (2 or 4 gig) is not mentioned. Works perfectly with audible manager. Read this thread on another forum that convinced me it was safe to purchase. (http://www.misticriver.net/forums/iriver-t10-t30-series-flash-players/54932-audible-support-t50-t60.html)
(A couple times I have had to resync T60 with my computer because I had the unit in LOCKED mode when I changed the battery :banghead:. This causes the unit to drop authorization to play the files. Just resync and back in business. Simple to avoid this problem, but sometimes I get a brain fart. :-[)
IRiver has lovely units with EXCELLENT quality sound (much better than most mp3 players). Some play videos (wasn't interested in that).
I chose the the products I did (T30 and T60) for the following reasons:
- uses AAA battery (didn't have to be around a PC to charge) Only a few units use batteries, most have rechargeable cells like ipods. I WANTED AAA battery. This was most important to me. Some people want to avoid this. Personal choice.
- decent battery life. Energizer lithium is best in the unit.
- lightweight (wanted to wear them)
- skin (protective silicone shell was available...I am a klutz)
- storage space was not an issue for me. If it was, neither of my units would have fit the bill. Even though my tiny unit only has 2gig, I have 3 audible books on my T60 right now, plus music, plus some old radio shows. This is PLENTY for my needs. Days of listening. My coworker went with different brand because she wanted 80gig. Again, personal choice.
- cost (not a huge deal but pleasant because I was able to get good deals on my units). Audible often runs specials to get people to sign up for memberships.
- radio (the T60 has an FM radio in it. Poor quality reception in many areas, but comes in handy sometimes). Was not important to me.
I got my first iriver player from Amazon.com because they had a partnership with Audible that gave me a HUGE discount on both the player and the membership when purchased within 24 hours of each other. They offered several different kinds, manufacturers, but all with the lovely discounts. Been an addict ever since.
I like my T60 so much that I went to ebay and got a second one for $50. Found the silicone shell for $20 and they are put away for "just in case" my current one dies, gets broken or lost. Have used my T60 for 2 years and still operates perfectly. Suits my needs very well.
Have noticed a change at AUDIBLE in the last few months. Now everytime I download my AA files, it downloads, then goes through an IMPORT into Windows Media player. Doubles my download time but can't seem to stop that process. I never use Windows Media Player to play or move my files. I use audible manager for my books and drag and drop other files to the unit with Windows Explorer. So the extra step that Audible goes through is wasted for me but might be quite handy for others.
-
That's good to know. I also prefer a AAA battery instead of recharging for sometimes 2 hours of more. Regarding the iPhone which is on back order for 3 weeks now, I guess it is would also be blocked by the airlines, although I have seen people using the previous version iPhones during flights several times. Anyway, I don't want to cause an accident, so will look for an MP3 player. Just looked at the iRiver web site again. Cool stuff!
I don't have that problem with Windows Media Player now, as I also use the Audible Manager, but do remember that originally years ago I did install an Audible add on for WMP and had to uninstall it due to problems. Maybe something similar installed itself on your system and can be removed via Control Panels Add/Remove software in Windows XP.
-
I will check for a plugin as you suggest when I am back at my PC. (Using my laptop now)
May be specific setting in WMP or version of Audible software I am using too...
I have the itouch and could put my audibles on that unit but my battery life on the itouch sucks so am not tempted to use that piece for my books. I can get 18-20 hours of staight listening on a battery. If I start/stop a LOT it will drain a bit faster but still MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better than the itouch!!!!!
Of course when I wear my iRiver T60 into a store (grocery shopping, etc) I am constantly " What is that around your neck?". It is rare to see someone with iRiver around here. More in England and Europe I think. Definitely not well known brand here. NONE of their products are in our local stores! Big stores carry Creative Zen, Microsoft Zune, San Disk, and Apple brands. Orlando is an international destination (thanks to Disney World and other theme parks) so we usually have international products available to us but not iRiver so far. I took a chance online and this time it worked out well.
Down the road, I would consider iRiver product again based on my own very positive experiences. Between the two MP3 models and the iRiver FM Transmitter in my auto (plugs into cigarette lighter and mp3 player as headphone so I can listen to my books through the car speakers while driving. I plug my itouch into it too to sometimes. When I bought my iRiver units, there were few choices that were BOTH AAA and Audible. At that time, iRiver had great reviews vs the competition. Have been pleased with my choices. Definitely gotten my money out of them! Don't know what the CURRENT choices are and whether iRiver should still be considered for you.
-
Sami, I have a recharging battery for my iphone/iPod. Found it in China. You just charge it in the same way as iPhone/iPod (same charger, USB), then when you need to recharge your iPhone, just plug this battery into the normal socket on the base of the iPhone. It has the same profile as iPhone, so just looks like an extended iPhone. This battery fully recharges the internal battery in a short time. I have several of them so rarely run out of battery, and don't have the expense of throw-away batteries. I also have a little solar charger (about cigarette box size) which can recharge those batteries.
Rick
-
Hi Sami,
I've been doing some searching and the triangular Irivers (with AAA batteries) are off the market so keep them precious as they are not available any longer. There is a new T7 (only avail with rechargeable battery) but some reviews are very negative about it saying that it is slow to react and one can't find the buttons in the dark (no good for a night flight) as they are level with the surface and not illuminated.
-
Sorry to hear. Love my little toys.
Would you like my "spare" T60 and silicone cover? Neither have been used. I could set up the T60 to work with audible for you.
-
Sami,
You are too kind, but yesterday ordered a Sony that is on sale. Thanks a million for your offer! :flowers: It does not have a AAA battery but will let you know how it works when I receive it later today.
BTW, Steve Jobs from Apple announced yesterday that prices are being slashed by $20 across their range and new features are being introduced in the iPods which includes a video camera.
-
I am sure you will like your Sony. Hope the battery lasts long time for you.
I really like my ipod itouch and have become an ipod fan. But not a fanatic...the battery life SUCKS and could be much better. Serious flaw in my opinion. From what I understand the iphone has better battery life.
I just read about Steve Jobs liver transplant. Me moved to the head of the line quickly. The folks that make the decision must use apple products. ;)
-
Hi Sami,
Received the Sony Walkman. It looks like a USB memory stick (2GB) and has 2 charging modes: High Bus (500mA) gives you 90 minutes for a 3 minute charge (really fast) but if you leave it longer it charges fully in about an hour for a claimed 18 hours playing time in super power saver mode. Alternatively, Low Bus (100mA) mode charges slowly and one can leave it plugged in the whole day. Operation is really simple and the tiny screen has excellent graphics. My stuff is usually MP3 256kbps. When syncing with WMP, WMP converts to WMA @ 192kbps automatically and then transfers the data to the Walkman but I don't know why as the specs say it can play MP3 up to 320kbps. The transfer is at lightning speed, well almost. Audible is not compatible unless one converts to mp3. One can't add book marks but it remembers where the track was stopped provided you don't switch off completely. It has a FM radio with fantastic reception and one programs can be recorded (very good) as well as voice (not so good). The earphones that came with it are reasonably good quality but they are rather small and don't have any grip, cover, or hook ability so they fall out easily.
Maybe an iPod or a Mac found its way to the decisions makers. Just kidding!